Dear Art,
Thanks for your interest and dedication to Little Kings. Here is some statistical information that I hope will be helpful to you.
Original gravity: 13.3 degrees plato
IBUs: 20.5
Alcohol content: 4.41% ABW, 5.56% ABV
Ingredients: 6-row malted barley, Saaz and Cluster hops in (isosmerized liquid form to prevent skunkiness in the green bottles), corn syrup.
To tell you the truth, we are making an effort to go back to the original Little Kings recipe and are doing test batches right now to try to find the proper flavor and body. Originally, Little Kings did use Hallertau hops along with Saaz and Cluster and corn flakes instead of syrup. It may take some time to perfect the recipe as we now have different sized brew kettles
than when the original recipe was produced.
I hope this information is helpful to you.
Paul Abrams
Communications Director
Art's email to group:
LK Fans
Hey! I sent this to the guy at Huedepohl a while ago, with NO response. I was hoping for some more help w/ the recipe. Since he has not been forthcoming with any, I suggest we move on this anyway. Pacman and parker are making an lk clone this weekend? Well, I thought I'd share this with them and others I thought
would be interested. So, Pac and Parker, let me know what you think, and also please forward your recipe on to us with any tasting results. Maybe we can get a LK TRUB group together?
Later
ArtFull
-----------------
Paul,
Thanks alot for all the good information! This will be invaluable. A group of my homebrewer buddies are planning a series of recipes to try to "clone" Little Kings. You've probably heard from a few via email in the last week or so.
What we are think is a base recipe of 85% 6row, and 15% corn syrup by weight. Mashing would have to include a protein rest since it is 6row. As homebrewers, most of us dont filter like the big boys. Maybe the mash schedule would look like : 125F for 20min, 152F for 60min, 165F for 15min.
As far as hops go, I would have to start at a Cluster and SAAZ mix of 50/50 perhaps with 15 ibus at 60min before end of boil, and again the 50/50 min with 5 ibus at 20min. This may not be the right amount of flavor or aroma hop amount, but I think its close. We'll probably very this ratio and the timing in a few recipes.
With fermentation, I'm guessing again at the yeast, maybe a clean american lager strain such as Wyeast 2035, or 2272. But we'll probably experiment with perhaps a pilsener strain such as wyeast 2278.
I know you're probably not able to give us the complete secrets of the recipe. But with what I've told you, could you perhaps give us some more pointers or comments? The yeast used, mash schedule and hop ratios and times are what we need to nail down. The help you've given us so far has been great! If you can't
tell us anymore, I understand. But when we're done, I'll let you know, maybe we can ship you some samples, for the help you've given us!
Thanks again
Art Beall
Pacman's Reply:
Hey Art,
This is just going to be a preliminary run on the LK clone. Parker and I are brewing Skot's Buttweazle porter together and I am going to do a side batch of cream ale just so i don't run out of cream ale. I go thru the stuff pretty fast. i can be the guinnea pig with this first batch and we can adjust the recipe from there for a LK Trub if we can get others interested. I know Metal is. I will use your suggestions for this batch and see how it turns out. The only thing with mine this weekend is that I am going to use..... er... um ........Wyeast 1056... there, ive said it.... I don't do lagers but i've had good success with using Wyeast California common / White labs San Fransico lager yeasts for cream ales. I just don't have any ready at this point so I will use 1056 primaried around 60°.
Now, is there that much difference between cornsugar and syrup? I was going to use cornsugar but if the syrup would be better I could use that..
anyway, let me know what you think and I will put a recipe together.
later,
Chris Ingermann (Pacman)
Art again:
Pac,
Great! As we all know, 1056 is a great neutral yeast, and someone a long time ago on the HBD mentioned that it does work well at lower temps and is quite lager like. I havent done this yet myself. As far as corn syrup goes, I dont know. I havent used this in a beer, only corn sugar. Does anyone else know? If
I has to guess, maybe it would be similar to the difference between dry and liquid malt extract, not much.
Let us know how it goes Pac! good luck!
Art
Metal's Email:
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:29:11 -0400
From: Paul Abrams
To: mila@weather.cod.edu
Subject: Little Kings
Dear Jeff,
Thanks for your interest in Little Kings cream ale. Thanks for your support. Little Kings is brewed with select 6-row malted barley, Saaz, Cluster and Hallertau hops, corn flakes and / or corn syrup. Original gravity is 13.3 degrees plato, IBUs are 20.5 and alcohol content is 5.56% by volume. Little Kings utilizes a bottom-fermenting lager yeast but it is fermented at warmer temperatures like an ale and then lagered for a full six weeks.
I hope this helps.
Paul Abrams
Communications Director
Hudepohl-Schoenling Brewing Company
Keger's Email:
As far as brewing a clone of Little Kings, I can tell you the styles of malt, hops and adjuncts we use. I can also tell you that we are experimenting with going back to the original Little Kings recipe, which was altered in 1990 after three consecutive gold medals at the GABF. We now have different sized brewing kettles so we're experimenting with test batches now and I don't know yet if or when we will convert back to the original recipe. Currently, Little Kings is brewed with 6-row barley malt, Saaz and Cluster hops in liquid isosmerized form (to eliminate skunkiness in the green bottles), and corn syrup. The original recipe called for 6-row barley, corn flakes or grits and Saaz, Hallertau and Cluster hop pellets.
Regards,
Paul Abrams
Communications Director
Email Exchange Between Pacman and Mike Heilman:
Wed, 10 Nov 2004
Howdy!
I'm a home brewer of about 2 1/2 years here in Columbus Ohio,
and You have some wonderful refereneces to Little Kings Cream Ale clone.
I'm planning to try version of your "Lao Kang's Cream Ale " recipe
I found on the http://www.ingermann.com/recipes/63_creamale.html page.
Would you have any pointers or additional suggestions? I'm
planning to follow the recipe as true as I can.
Many regards,
Mike in Ohio
Fri, 12 Nov 2004
Heya Mike,
To be honest with you the Lao Kang's recipe is more of a play
off the name Little Kings than it is a clone of the beer. To
clone LK you would need to use one of the other recipes that I
have posted. It's the one that uses Cluster and Saaz hops and
cornsugar. Even if you use that one it's not going to be exactly
like LK... I haven't seriously tried to clone it in some time.
Since I made the Lao Kang's recipe i've pretty much stuck with
it. I like it much better than LK and haven't changed the recipe
in a long time. It's basically a CACA (Classic American Cream
Ale) which means it's a bit bigger in body and flavor. It is one
of my house beers. If I were going to try and clone LK again,
which i'll get to again someday, I would use just 6-row and
corngrits (cereal mash) or flaked maze and have the hops be
Cluster for bittering (~20 ibu) and Saaz for flavor (.25oz - 15
min) and aroma (.25oz - 5 min). I would use a protein rest of
134° for 20 min, a Sacc rest at 149° for 60 min, and a mashout.
The OG should be around 1.054 and the FG should be around 1.010.
I think that would get you pretty damn close. If you chose to
brew the Lao Kang's recipe then just follow it. It is no Little
King's but it's a damn fine beer if I do say so myself. Simple
and tasty.
General Creamale Suggestions: 1.) I don't like using the tap
water here in Indiana for lighter styles of beer. For my
creamale and kolsch I use atleast 2/3 RO water to 1/3 tap. Nice
soft, clean water gives these lighter styles a better flavor. If
you have soft water to begin with then you are ok. 2.) To
adjust the pH I use Calcium Chloride CaCl. I used to use Gypsum
until I figured out that it enhances hop bitterness. My
creamales were good but they had a lingering bitterness to them.
The CaCl eliminated that. 3.) with the 6-row I suggest atleast
doing the 134° protein rest to help clarify the beer. Both the
122° and the 134° rests are not a bad idea if you can do both.
These rests help clear the beer and they also give it a nice
crispness in the finish. Single infusion creamales are good but
I have enjoyed the step-mashed ones more. 4.) Pitch lot's of
yeast and keep the fermentation temps low. For the cali
common/WL San Fran yeasts I suggest no higher than 62-64° for
the primary. colder if you can. After primary, cold condition
the creamale as cold as you can for a couple of weeks then enjoy
it.
My last keg of creamale is getting extremely low so it's time
for me to brew another in a couple of weeks.
I hope all this rambling can help you some with your creamale!
Good Luck Mike!
Mon, 7 Feb 2005
I pass along a big "THANKS" for your advice on the LK CreamAle Clone.
It turned out great, barely distinguishable from the original.
Regards, Mike
